Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Some people are missing the point of a destination photography course. Destination photography courses are a lot like pre-package vacations.

You can pay for the destination course and have everything arranged for you in terms of site visits, experienced guides/teachers, meals, lodging and hanging around people with the same interests.

I love the Yukon and would love to explore the backcountry more but don't have any friends willing to backpack out there and spend a week doing photography never mind the fact I don't have many friends into photography in the first place. A destination course would fit my needs because I don't have to go solo into the wilderness.

Its a lot like Contiki tour packages to Europe. You go as a group and hang out and have fun. You can easily arrange all that by yourself (just like only needing creativity like Potatoeye says) and booking your own flights and just going there. Like TMPG official events and ad hoc events its also about the shared experienced and human interactions that make it enjoyable for people.

These courses appeal to different people for different reasons. Unless people have done these courses they really can't say if they are worth it or not.

I've been on three workshops with these folks - Craig Tanner is a great teacher and the prices are reasonable. Going again this fall to Zion.

http://www.tmelive.com/index.php/articles/5.html

Ditto.

Thanks everyone who has posted links!

well,

Yukon is on destination list and I too suffer from lack of traveling buddies.
May be we can arrange a group or something...

A photography group to the Yukon does sound intriguing. Intriguing indeed.

Now all we have to do is find a combination tour guide/ photographer/ Lightroom expert/ Float plane pilot with a float plane and we are ready to go

That'd be the easy part, finding the cash to go would be the difficult part for me.

The float plane part is easy. I've flown with Apline Aviation out of Whitehorse.

Yes I know what you mean travelling up above the Arctic Circle is usually more expensive then travelling to the other side of the globe.

Some people (like me) have made the point that there are cheaper alternatives but that in no way suggests destination photography courses aren't of value. I clearly stated they can be.
Who is saying they aren't worth it?

You're right. The analogy with prepackage vacations is apt. Some people would never travel with a packaged tour. They prefer to make the arrangements themselves. Research it themselves and hate to be tied down to the structure of a prepackaged vacation That's a valid perspective as well. However, stating one's preference for traveling cheaper without the confines of a prepackaged tour doesn't mean that prepackaged trips are not worth it. It's not that these people 'don't get it'. They DO get it. They just think there are other alternatives. Choices. Making people aware of these choices doesn't mean prepackaged tours are bad, not at all. They clearly are of benefit/value or else the marketplace wouldn't support them. but don't misinterpret stating alternatives choices as criticism.


This perfectly illustrates my point. The person/company with this skillset is gonna charge a lot. Personally I'd prefer to just find a guide/pilot and learn/acquire the LR and photography skills locally/online. For example, I was able to plan a photography tour of southern Ethiopia online. I found similarly minded photographers and we hired a tour guide/ driver/4x4/camping tour much much much cheaper than it would have cost to go on a destination workshop. MUCH cheaper. Our driver/guide was familiar with local customs/languages. He hadn't a clue about photogrpahy but I learned a lot about photography from being in the presence of my fellow enthusiasts. We all had different skill sets and learned from each other (and we didn't have to pay each other). Some were stronger in composition, others in getting the exposure nailed right, others knew portrait photogrpahy better, others had specific knowledge on how to better protect, clean, store and carry equipment. Someone was good at getting sunrise shots nailed properly. Someone else knew the best panning technique. We freely shared gear and knowledge when possible. Synergy. And it wasn't just photographic knowledge that we shared. Some had specialised camping skills, others bargaining skills for markets, general travel knowledge, language and ethno-sociological skills...

But that's just MY preference.
Let's be clear. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't go and organize a trip to the Yukon with a combination tour guide/ photographer/ Lightroom expert/ Float plane pilot with a float plane or find a prepackaged tour that offers that. My preference would be to pack a float plane with a fellow TPMG'ers or photoenthusiasts from anywhere in the world who have skills different from mine and between the lot of us we can do a trip suited to our goals/needs. This would result, in my opinion, in a cheaper more rewarding trip than being on a photography destination trip were you pay somebody for their specialised knowledge - not to mention not having the choice to find better valued accomodation...No, it ain't easy, which is why the destination photography option exists.
Make no mistake - Travel destination photography remains an excellent option. That is another way towards the same goal - great photos!! Whatever path you take to this destination is a good one. Only you can decide if it is worth it for you

If you want to change the location to the NWT I have someone in mind an accomplished photographer with a beaver float plane. I'm not sure about the Lightroom but I'm sure one of us can handle that part

Oh Ryan. Why do you write such things? Did my post really merit this snide response? Either I was unclear or you misunderstood me. I don

omgwalloftexticantreadit

All I wanted was a few links to some destination photography workshops. I hate the interwebs.

Edit: Was gonna say something else but I just want this thread to go back to its original topic. THANKS.

Polar Bears! RAWR!
http://canonfieldreviews.com/expedition-svalbard-2010/

I didn't really want to sidetrack Wendy's Topic anymore but you seem to insist. So lets analysis your first comment my take on it is in blue:



I have already answered this part in a previous post. For someone that says they are a beginner you sure seem to have some strange idea that all you need is basic knowledge to be a good photographer.



I insinuated nothing, I haven't been to a workshop where I didn't learn something worth while (well OK I did walk out on a few). I know an Ansel workshop could have taught me so much. Once again you seem to miss the point this topic is all about photographic workshops thus I have not and have no need to come to the defence of workshops.



Ansel Adams workshops hardly extraneous to the topic.
"Applying photography beyond the basics I hope is not an obscure objective but is the essence of photography." Sure talking about photography as being more then a collection of basic techniques or I think you used the term tricks is extraneous to a topic on photography. And talking about shark attacks is a irrelevant tangent when talking about a workshop on underwater photography of tiger sharks:?:

But hyperbole and extraneous concepts like specious arguments and court ...are OK? How many links about workshops were posted by me under this topic? How many by you?

Sorry Wendy for more off topic but I find Fionah's deconstruction off topic arguments so strange I had to reply. Sorry everyone for any typos it's late and past my bedtime.

Warning off topic link but a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

finoah: I don't think Metrix is talking about Ansel Adams the photographer. He refers to the Ansel Adams Workshops (which is btw an excellent continuation of my thread!!!)

http://www.anseladams.com/index.asp?Pag ... tegory=204

Really interesting workshops. I would love to join all the Yosemite National Park workshops. OK, better start saving my money

Wow, somebody pissed in somebody's cereal.

Indeed, and I know who did it.

Thanks Wendy - you cleared up my misconceptions about the man vs. the workshops in his name. That clearly shows I wasn't correct in referring to that argument as specious. Mea culpa. Sorry about that one Ryan. I am able to admit when I am wrong. THAT comment was not a specious argument, it was merely condescending.

I still don't think you needed to suggest that PotatoEYE could benefit from them just to illustrate that workshops are good - especially since you admit walking out of some. That's unnecessarily condescending. Just like you made an asinine comment about conceding that one can read up on basic photographic techniques from the safety of a computer. Seriously - that is silly. What did safety have to do with it unless it was your intention to demean the person? I don't see any reason for that sentence. The sentence is also demeaning to everyone on this board as it suggests they are not capable of photography beyond basic skill level. Since that insinuation is probably not your real belief I can only assume you make that absurd assertion because you are unwilling to concede anything of substance to Philmar's seemingly sensible caveats. Or do you really believe that nobody here can impart photographic knowledge beyond the basic skills? And why sarcastically suggest I claim I could teach you a thing or two about photography. I never said anything of the sort.

Yes, talking about shark attacks can be an irrelevant tangent when talking about a workshop on underwater photography of tiger sharks. As 2 other people have already indicated this isn't a photographic skill and one easily learned outside of a photography workshop. Yes, court can be an irrelevant topic- however it wasn't a central tenet of any argument so it wasn't. Others seem to admit when they've maintained an untenable position. You seem to want to continue in irrelevant tangents, bring up extraneous subjects or make insinuations that people here are lacking in photographic skills, overly risk-averse (Philmar) or in my case conceited about their photographic skills. Others admit when they're wrong, apologize if they behaved poorly. And you? Well, you can concede the bleeding obvious and only if it can be used to demean someone.

And just why is the number of links about workshops posted by me important? Tally up the number of links posted by everyone here if you want. But to what end? It's just another irrelevant sidebar. Can it be used to illustrate that you didn't try to demean people, which is why I posted here? I suspect it is yet another irrelevant topic meant to glorify something you've done and illustrate how you are superior to someone else...perhaps another attempt to demean?

You do like to rant off topic don't you? I contributed to this topic with links plus other relevant information, all you did is write pages of pointless suppositions about my motives, even though there were several requests by others to stay on topic.



Of course your entitled to your opinion. I guess you think PotatoEye couldn't learn anything from an Adam Ansel workshop? I know he's a lot smarter then you give him credit. He knows I was not being condescending. Please refresh my memory when did I say all workshops were good? Of course some are good and some are not so good. This whole topic is about sharing information about workshops we think might be good or fun...



Once again you conveniently ignore others that like me were also trying to explain that workshops are more then learning about the basics or even more advanced skills. Landscape photographer, wedding photographer, street photographer, under water photography, vacation photography ... photo journalism notice the conjunction, many are not easily learned without real world in person guidance. Most are better or more fun when learned in the company of others



Well that is certainly a convenient excuse for you



I assumed that you were talking from experience and had some tricks to teach us on photography.

You might want to search the phase "from the safety of your chair", "from the safety of your computer" or other variations you will see it's a common English idiom no sinister or condescending meaning.



Have a closer look it was Philmar that later extended his comment from basic skills to beyond basic skills. I made no comment either way about advanced skills. It is very rude of you and a falsehood to imply that I was saying anything negative about the teaching of photography by anyone. I actively promote photography and teaching of photographic skills within TPMG.

I await your reply as if I had a choice.

I see both sides of the arguments .. If I were to join a desitination photog course it wouldn't be to learn how to take pictures .. It would be to get intel on sweet local spots to go .. get access to places that me being bymyself would not be able to get and finding places to shoot you normally wouldn't see on your own .. Sure shooting with others you always learn SOMETHING even if its miniscule .. I won't knock courses I wouldn't mind taking some myself .. for the experience It definatly beats going alone .. Mind you some prices are rediculous.. I don't see why the arguments really everyones entitled to their opinions but its a course lol you realize your fighting over courses for photography?

I did a watch and learn with a professional photographer, professional to me meaning that's her full time job. She was giving a lecture on what she was doing as she went along but I found more information in subtle things that wasn't even mentioned because to her she wasn't aware she was doing it.

Poor Wendy
Seriously Fionah, there

We ALL do. Almost all of us. I don't even think it's an argument about destination courses.


Yeah, it's childish and it should move to PM. I think everyone here sees value in some form of destination photography courses. And some people are making very sensible suggestions that there are alternatives in addition to these courses.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrix_feet/3160110336/" title="pARIS cAT by Metrix X, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3160110336_fbd9cf2339.jpg" width="499" height="500" alt="pARIS cAT"></a>

Mate, cost is so bloody important I can't believe your 'friends' here weren't all over you for that one. Cost has a sad knack of turning up in discussions about anything that costs money. It's utter tosh to think it isn't important.

I am here in Canada for the next 6 months. I expect to see the polar bears in Churchill before I leave. In the meantime I'd fancy a go at a local destination workshop centered around the moose in Ontario or bears in the Rockies. I know this seems to be about courses outside of Toronto but if anybody knows of any good courses in Ontario they can Private Message me.

Cheers, Trevor