Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Wow,

I must be missing something because I want to buy a Beauty Dish, Grid, etc. from AlienBees and the shipping costs to Canada actually EXCEED the costs of the items themselves!! Call me crazy, but that seems silly to me!

Is there a decent way to buy items form them without paying insane UPS shipping costs across the border? I think the only decent option right now is to have it shipped to an address in the states and then get it redirected to TO?

Since there are so many experienced shooters here, i was hoping someone knew of a better way to buy Ab stuff?

Have you tried setting the shipping option to "UPS Worldwide Saver to Canada"?

It includes brokerage fees...you just have to pay GST/PST. See the AB FAQ:
http://www.alienbees.com/order.html

I recently bought that dish. Apparently, UPS determines the shipping charges according to the size of the box, not its weight, regardless of the shipping option chosen. When mine was delivered UPS just left it at my door but decided to send me an invoice for $4.23 for the taxes (?).

Yup, tried the Worldwide Shipping Option to avoid brokerage but it came out to over the cost of the dish itself! Also, the grid shipping costs was about 75% of the item! Just silly to me. And frustrating.

I think every one of us should spam alien bees with requests to use some more reasonable shipping courier for Canada

Unfortunately, the box takes up a lot of room (for the dish), and they are both awkward sizes ... hence the price of shipping. Has nothing to do with the cost of the item in this case.

we should all definitely email them about concerns about UPS service to Canada.

DHL and Fed Ex have much more reasonable rates on regular shipping. UPS kills you on brokerage, forcing you to use Worldwide saving, hence insane fees charged.

ABs response to me was that they thought that UPS serves their needs for Canadian customers. I told her otherwise and i think more of us should say the same thing so they can simply have other options available.

If i was a company and i had customers asking for a different delivery service, i would certainly consider it.

I had no problem with AB when I ordered lights a while back. Simply called them up and sorted out Worldwide shipping. I don't recall it being overexpensive. As someone said, maybe it was the size of the item.

yes the size of the dish makes shipping higher than the item itself, but even the grid for it was about 75% shipping costs compared to the price of the item. Just insanely expensive shipping costs!

I just ordered the ringflash, moon unit and gels - Shipping was sort of pricey but nothing like ordering the Nikon 9000 from B&H - that was the most I ever paid for shipping (Same option - UPS worldwide saver).

It's likely that most (if not all) companies that ship via UPS get a deal on their shipping (unlike,say "joe consumer") - because, in reality, what's stopping that company from shipping via FedEx or Purolator or DHL or even just plain old USPS.

Part of the reason, my guess at least, must have to do with "ease of shipment" for the manufacturer/seller (in this case, AlienBees). While we'd all love to have that USPS option, it may not be as easy to ship via USPS as it is via UPS.

What people have to remember is that UPS, while serving we consumers with respect to getting stuff delivered, gets their money from the shipper and not the receiver per se. So they'd much rather make the shipping company happy rather than the receiving individual or company.

Just my opinion anyway

Cheers,
Dave

Total cost of shipping a HOBD using Ground UPS is $40 for UPS and $26 for brokerage fees if you call UPS to give them the tracking number. If not then add another $10

I totally forgot about this.

Ordered via WorldWide Saver.

To the best of my knowledge; no tax and no brokerage - I called UPS to verify that after getting a weird phone message saying that if they did not hear from me they'd act as my broker - I called, spoke to a rep who checked the item out, no brokerage was charged (which is what I figured would happen; just a bit surprised at no tax).

Dave

I already told them that I won't order from them unless I can use another shipper besides UPS. They don't seem to care that their customers get shafted by UPS

I don't get how you get "shafted" by UPS when you use the suggested UPS Worldwide saver?

Can you explain that to me?

Cheers,
Dave

Because you are forced to pay the high Worldwide saver fees because no one can take the sheer punishment that their regular UPS shipping and brokerage fees charge. When FedEx and DHL can ship it regular rate and not kill you anywhere close to UPS fees. Essentially, you are forced to pay a lot more for shipping, otherwise, you'll end up paying EVEN more!

It's like "I'm going to kick you in the groin...BUT if you pay me $20 bucks, I'll just punch you in the face"! Yippee

I'm no fan of UPS but can you prove that FedEx and DHL would be any 'less' expensive than UPS?

I'm only basing my experience on B&H - whom I've ordered from quite often. For example - D700 body only (which is fairly significant price/weight wise) - costs $58.70 USD (via UPS Worldwide Saver - same shipping method as Paul C Buff / AlienBees). FedEx Priority (same shipping time as UPS; that is a 1-2 day turnaround) is $102.50 USD for the same D700. FedEx Economy is $80 USD (2-4 day turnaround).

As I said, I'm no fan of UPS but I know that regardless of which company you ship with, unless it's the good old USPS/Canada Post method, you're going to get hit with brokerage on ground shipping if it comes across the U.S. / Canada border.

Using the shipping calculator at FedEx.com (U.S. site) and plugging in the Nashville address to a Toronto address, you get approx. $72/$79 USD fee for shipping and only two choices - International priority and International economy. There is no other option offered, that is, no ground shipping with that calculator.

With all that said, if you want something to be shipped from Paul C Buff, it looks like you choose UPS or you choose to shop elsewhere for something other than Paul C Buff products.

Cheers,
Dave

I wanted to get a AB400/800 package but I dont want to waste my money for taxes and brokerage. Last time I bought from ebay were two umbrellas that cost me double the price for the shipping + brokerage fee which is 50% of the price.

I think there is a way to get around this if you are purchasing big and expensive stuff. My sister bought me a laptop before in the us and ship it through fedex. She sent it to a fedex address somewhere in buffalo and I pick it up from there. When I got to the border, I just said I took pictures from the other side of niagara and there were no questions at all. Well it cost me $34 for that because I took the bus and a day of travel.

I am thinking of doing the same thing when I will buy my ABs. Or just wait till someone here has a better way of shipping those lights.

Well, i've had many similar items purchased through different carriers and UPS is always significantly higher in all fees.

In the appeal courts right now, but BC court case is seeking class action against UPS for excessive brokerage fees.
ttp://www.poynerbaxter.com/UPS.htm

Maybe we should all get together to make a big AB purchase and then have it shipped to BUffalo where people can ship in for gas, etc. and do a road-trip pick up. Pay self-brokerage/taxes at border and save so much cash for the group purchase!

or just hide it in the back of a van and don't pay any fees Im down I was thinking on ordering an 800 for a gift to myself

You could try that (ship to Buffalo and smuggle it across) - but if you get busted at the border then don't expect them to be "nice" to you.

Like I said before, the "excessive" brokerage fee occurs when shipping via ground shipping. That's been going on for-ev-er. I first noted it back in 1998 and since then, I've avoided UPS ground (and all other courier ground shipping methods).

I've given a concrete example that shows that UPS is at least comparable to other companies when it comes to a particular shipping method - you've just stated they're "significantly higher in all fees" - I somehow can't see that since there's nothing posted outside of conjecture regarding this.

I'm all for USPS/Canada Post, which is usually the cheapest but still most effective way of shipping, but most companies, I believe, can get a "deal" by shipping all their stuff via one or two carriers.

Good luck with your purchase.

Cheers,
Dave

Well, since I've been avoiding UPS at all costs lately, i dont have a recent bill to compare against my other deliveries via FedEx or DHL. However, to portray the issue with UPS as mere "conjecture" seems arbitrarily dismissive.

Just for now, we have

1. Class Action proceeding in BC against UPS for excessive charges, etc. re: brokerage (link above - you can read the details of the claim and excessive charges, unfair practices charged by UPS);

2. Another CLass Action against UPS started in Ontario for excessive charges and unfair practices (http://www.classaction.ca/content/actions/ups.asp) you can read the details of that by following the link too;
and
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/281890

Some quick searches reveal others who have the same so called "conjecture":

3. "Frankly, I would rather direct the seller not to ship by UPS. I have shipped other packages to my daughter via Purolator and the U.S. Postal Service with no customs brokerage fees at all...In the meantime, UPS should be avoided when shipping to Canada"
http://www.rossde.com/UPS_sucks/index.html#prevail

4. "UPS charges the highest brokerage fees in the industry - from what I have read. These fees are often 'hidden' to most customers, since they are not included in the item price or the shipping and are separate from the taxes (discussed below)"
http://www.stokecity.ca/orderfromus.shtml

5. "Nevertheless, UPS managed to nail me again a couple of weeks ago. When I order anything from stateside, I always implore the vendor to ship by any means other than UPS"
http://lowendmac.com/misc/03/0623.html

6. epinions:

Camera worth $225 - UPS wants $77
Pros: Nothing! They are rip-off artists. Other couriers are cheaper in brokerage fees - much cheaper
Cons: $52 in brokerage fees speaks for itself!
Of that $77 - about $52 goes to UPS. I had the UPS support people break the cost down for me. The rest was Duty and GST to total about $25 of what I would have to pay

UPS are ZEROES !!!
by marginal ,Jul 31 '07
Pros: The service in general is not bad.
Cons: EXCESSIVE BROKERAGE FEES. You may end up paying $33 for an item that costs $0.
UPS is the most fraudulent courier service in North America.
Their brokerage fees are excessive and no one knows about them before receiving the parcel when it is too late to do anything in order to avoid these charges.
I wish UPS went bankrupt. That will make so many people happy ...

etc.
http://www.epinions.com/reviews/bsrv-Of ... list/pp_~9

I don't buy from anybody that ships UPS...if they don't want to change carriers then they don't want my business. Not only do they rape you on fees but they also seem to have a harder time delivering to my house then everybody else. I've made my last trip to the Steeles depot.

double post

OK, some more "conjecture"

I've seen on a few references, DHL listed brokerage is 2.5% of the item cost or $7 (whichever is higher). Seems to match their cost chart, but if anyone can confirm otherwise, great:
http://www.dhl.ca/ca/Documents/CBG%20Se ... nglish.pdf

Using the Finalcost calculator that is referred to by a bunch of people, i punched in some hypothetical item costs (shipping to Ontario):
http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/


Item #1
$50, $20 shipping

UPS = brokerage $22.17
DHL = brokerage $7
Fed Ex = brokerage $21.09
USPS = brokerage $5.70
EMS = brokerage $9.12

Item #2
$100, $20 shipping

UPS = brokerage $33.06
DHL = brokerage $7
Fed Ex = brokerage $31.92
USPS = brokerage $5.70
EMS = brokerage $9.12

Item #3
$200, $20 shipping

UPS = brokerage $44.37
DHL = $7
FedEx = 41.04
USPS = $5.70
EMS = $9.12


Item #4
$300, shipping $20

UPS = $44.37
DHL = $7.50
FedEx = $41.04
USPS = $5.70
EMS = $9.12

You can punch in your own numbers but UPS seems to have the HIGHEST brokerage fees in every single situation!

just more conjecture...

There are some companies, such as The Tire Rack in the USA, that provide a full quote of all UPS fees when you place an order with their site. This includes PST, GST, duty, brokerage, and even the Ontario tire disposal fee.

"Chopper"

You continue to neglect the simple fact that you don't need to ship UPS Ground which, I've now stated THREE times, is the way to avoid the excessive brokerage fees. Shipping via UPS Ground will ALWAYS incur large brokerage fees - shipping via many other couriers also will always incur brokerage fees of some kind, sometimes as large, sometimes not as large as UPS.

Compare apples to apples please.

WRT that "Financial Cost Calculator" - That particular site does not give you ANY options on how to ship - that is, it does not offer you any "type" of shipping just merely assumes some unknown type of shipping - I would rather take a few minutes to CALL the shipping company and determine any brokerage via an employee if I could not locate it on the company's website rather than take some information from a website that is created by some unknown entity online. (go ahead, try telling me which company or corporation or private individual is the owner of "TheFinalCost.com" via standard WhoIs searches)

Cheers,
Dave

You can ship to a holding company in Buffalo and pick up from there. Time permitting it is one of the cheaper methods. Come to think of it this would be an excellent group buy option.

If everybody were to kick in a bit extra to cover gas and meals. You have to plan logistics of bringing all this stuff over the border and make it legal. But most photo equipment is free just pst and gst anyway.

As mentioned elsewhere, warranty claims would be a problem since Alien Bees only recognizes the person on record that made the order.

...everybody could order their own...you are trying to save on the killer shipping over the border. It would not only apply to AB but adorama and B&H and and and...

Maybe what is needed is a third party shipper that is not interested in raping the consumer like the big ones.

The numbers i posted above ARE APPLES to APPLES comparison of ground shipping charges.

And my point above was that it forces you to pay MORE for additional shipping options (Worldwide save is more expensive than regular ground shipping).

Yeah, the Cost Calculator was recommended on a bunch of forums. I really dont have the time to call up each company to get fictional quotes right now. HOWEVER, i have posted many examples of people having direct issues with UPS, including legal actions, etc. and other members of this forum have also stated explicitly that they avoid UPS as well. I have also posted the DHL cost chart above too. You can read the court materials and call the lawyers for the class action proceedings about further details. I get the feeling you haven't even read the materials i have linked to.

I think if you refuse to believe the many many people who have problems with UPS, you should come up with something that shows how UPS is cheaper than DHL, Purolator, etc.