Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Hi!
I have a question about how I should pay my model.
First of all how much do you normally pay your models when you're doing shots for your own portfolio or as an art thing, so nothing really commercial?

My next question is what time counts. I mean if we talk ahead of a session for an hour about the shoot and about other stuff but more in a personal way just to exchange ideas etc I guess that's not really 'time'? I would start paying her from the moment we actually do work, she's preparing herself and I prepare the shot etc until it's done, she has taken off her makeup etc..

I have my first shooting on the weekend, thanks to some help here in the forum, and I just don't want to make some of the beginner mistakes. There will be enough room to make mistakes, so let's see. : )

Pay them from the moment they walk through your door till the minute they leave..

what i do is buy them a coffee or light snack while we talk about ideas and stuff, and start the clock when they start to get ready like make-up, clothes,etc

or if you just agree on a set price for the day and say x hours and how you use the time is up to you (your choice how much chit chat and actual shoot time you want)

but to be honest...most models will do it for free unless you are shooting artistic nudes

but the price should be discussed ahead of time to avoid confusion and an overall bad experience for both parties

I treat them to food after. Once was sushi, another time was just a coffee (she wasn't hungry).

Just because many models will do it for free doesn't mean you shouldn't pay them. Expecting them to work for free is obviously treating their work as though it is without value. Yes, you're right in that it won't be too hard to find a model willing to work for free, but that's exploiting the fact that far too many women are desperate to 'make it' as models so they'll waste their time doing free gig after free gig for photographers. You wouldn't work for free, would you?

photographers gotta eat too, no?

Models eat?

I think by "free" they mean at least TFP/TFCD? ... which should be fine as long as both parties agree to it.



haha

LOLLLL

It's an artistic nude shot I'm doing and we already agreed for the hourly rate and how long it will take us more or less.

I'm also the opinion I should start paying from the moment we actually start preparing and working, so she gets ready etc. So I definitely agree with Ray.

I like the idea of TFP/TFCD but it wouldn't work with the shoot I'm planing on doing on the weekend.

Sure, but I find so many models are desperate for work that they'll do TFP even if they have an established portfolio. I just know one too many young women who've wanted to get into modeling, have gone to do TFP work with a photographer with little to no talent and end up having the guy telling them he wants them to strip..

... and even after that have ended up with such terrible photos they wouldn't do a thing for their portfolio, anyway.

Payment? Bow chicka wow-wow.....

this is like 2 totally different things...GWC or guy with camera is your basic pervert with a DSLR he can do TFP/TFCD or he can also PAY and still ask the model to strip or do other inappropriate things

a photographer has spent countless dollars on equipment, paying for a model isnt the first thing on their mind...and if you're a pro photographer the model should be paying you lol.

it goes both ways, i've seen some photographers with an amazing port and yet they still shoot TFP with new models

i've done a shoot where i only paid the makeup artist cost of supplies and not their time but they got photos for their port, same as the model

even if you have an "amazing" port, you don't know what a new photographer or model can add to it and charging for every little thing will only restrict you

yes i know my points are all over the place, anyways back on topic, nude shoots should always be paid unless you have some sort of understanding with the model(maybe she really likes your work and is comfortable enough to drop the price tag)

Agreed! I think it's always a question of respect etc. I can imagine there are some guys who even think because they paid a model they can ask her to do close to everything they won't. I think there shouldn't be a difference at all in the way you treat a model, paid of unpaid the shooting itself should be done that same professional way. I guess if you find out that you don't act that way there might be something wrong.. I can't really talk out of experience in terms of shooting models. But I guess that's a something that applies in any kind of situation.. even in real life, the life outside of the viewfinder - I have heard about it, they say it really exists!! ; )

in my experience, people are more likely to conduct/behave professionally, if you treat them professionally... meaning you pay them for their services (in this case time) in full... reciprocity can be a beautiful thing, good luck

Instead of a one way model release I prefer to write a contract that includes a model release. Specify on a model release exactly what the terms are for the shoot for both the photographer and the model. Be precise include usage so there are no misunderstandings later. Send it to the model at least a couple of days before the shoot and go over it on the phone. Before the shoot starts have the model sign a copy and give her a copy signed by you.

This is your contract so honour it, treat the model with respect and as Ken says behave professionally.

For health reasons always make sure your MUA does not reuse makeup applicators on different people.

In a way it makes sense, clear communication up front is important but to put everything in a contract? It has a bad taste to it, like the contracts young model/artists/actresses have to sign in showbiz.. I don't really think this would do it for me. It seems like there is a lot of pressure in it. I think both sided should see how the shooting develops and go from there. I also wouldn't ask the model so sign anything upfront. If the shot was good for both sides then she will probably gladly sign the contract and if she refuses then probably because something went wrong during the shot. Let's say as long as it isn't a commercial shot I would handle it that way. Seems fair to me.

Metrix, can you please PM me one of your contracts??

I wanna share my personal experience, something that worked for me. As said before most important for me was to have a clear communication upfront. So I told her what I want to do and confirmed that the model understands and feels comfortable doing it. Especially with the series I was shooting it was very important that the model knew what it was about. Before we started working I went with her again through the whole shot and ask her if she feels comfortable with certain things. This was very important because I don't want to worry during the shot if she's really cool with posing nude etc.. I didn't ask her to sign anything but made clear that I will ask her at the end of the shooting to sign a release. We agreed before that all shots will be used for my portfolio, exhibits but nothing commercial. Her request was that I don't use her real name. I paid her $25/hr. After around 2 1/2 hours of work she had no problems signing the contract and got the payment for her work. If she would have said that she doesn't want to sign, well then something must have went wrong during the shoot, I would still pay of course. But everything was great. I guess very professional on both sides. If you wanna see the results, check out:
http://tpmg.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111053#111053
and follow the link to my website.

I offer to pay a model for her time, although i have done TFP. I dont mind paying some small amount at all, if it helps lower the chances of a no-show, flake. The money is less important to me than the wasted time, etc.

The advice above is good...being upfront about what you want will go a long way.

Sorry I missed your request for a sample contract.

A bit late know but I usually put this clause in for non commercial art type shoots:

Subject to the condition below the model retains the right to withdraw from public view any photographs that the model deems not in his/her best interests based on reasonable justification.

Condition for withdrawal: to withdraw a photograph the undersigned must provide a reasonable justification in writing to the photographer who took the photograph within 30 days of receiving the images.

Models like this clause because it protects them form the photographer taking advantage of a clothing mishap. Of course no one has ever asked to burn a photo.

I believe there are a few samples or bits and pieces that you can put together from previous threads about the same topic on here. search option is your best friend.

your forum nickname is fitting.

Not that you would go as far as to hire a professional model but if you are considering...

As a former model for Sutherlands here in toronto, the clock starts as soon as I walked in the door and keeps ticking until the photographer signs my receipt at the end of the shoot. That was for hourly jobs such as catalog work. Fees vary depending upon the model but expect to pay around $150 per hour if you want an agency model. Thats for no-name professional models and is a general hourly rate regardless of photo use. Big name models or rising stars are considerably more expensive.

Ad and editorial work was based on a flat fee or royalties depending on the final use.

If one day you feel like tuning pro and want a killer book. I would recommend hiring a decent pro model. If you are a talented photographer, a hot model can really add sizzle to your book.

Ray Lum wrote "..and if you're a pro photographer the model should be paying you lol. ". Just playing devils advocate here but both pro model and pro photographer get money from the client that is hiring their services. Think bigger

Great point!

I'm waiting for that day to happen! ; )

u are awesome

haha true

very nice series...i like how you took the color out of the body implying death while keeping the red

good work

and there very good and experienced models who will do creatives not because they 'desperate for work' but because they want to work with other talented people in a non-commissioned context so they can try new things and push creative boundaries...get some 'cool' stuff for their book.