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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:35 am 
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Photographer takes pictures of neighbors through windows is stirring up some.

I guess I should start being worried


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Reminds me of the guy who got in trouble here in Toronto a little while ago for photographing the strippers who were on break on their clubs roof:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/11/26/stripper-photos.html


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Ya that got me thinking...about a book a saw in the early 90's that I'm currently looking for. See above post for more details.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:57 am 
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It's interesting how far one can stretch 'public space' definition for...


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:40 am 
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I can see why this is stirring up controversy. Morals aside, even legally I suspect this has crossed the line, if not gotten really close to the line. In general you have an expectation of privacy when you're in your home. Bit different from public spaces.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:52 am 
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When I want privacy I simply close my blinds/curtains


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:58 pm 
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F'n Creeper. It's gross.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:28 pm 
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ions wrote:
F'n Creeper. It's gross.

nope, that's the guy they caught in High Park naked jerking off at the side of the lake, just as I was passing by on my bike :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:45 pm 
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As long as he doesn't point it at me I don't mind that as much as my sense of personal space being invaded.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:09 pm 
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ions wrote:
As long as he doesn't point it at me I don't mind that as much as my sense of personal space being invaded.

The guy from High park?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:33 am 
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I think they should sue him and hopefully they win. He didn't take the photos while he was in a public space, he took them from his private space ... so is argument of "it's like birding" is an irrelevant comparison.

Photograph me in my oem from the street is fine, but photograph me from your home (even if I'm on the street) and I'll relentlessly push till you are charged.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:54 am 
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Itsaphoto wrote:
I think they should sue him and hopefully they win. He didn't take the photos while he was in a public space, he took them from his private space ... so is argument of "it's like birding" is an irrelevant comparison.

Photograph me in my oem from the street is fine, but photograph me from your home (even if I'm on the street) and I'll relentlessly push till you are charged.


Based on what? What criminal activity has he done?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:36 am 
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Tresspassing and being a creep.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:50 am 
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PotatoEYE wrote:
Based on what? What criminal activity has he done?


Are you being this obtuse on purpose? It's creepy, it's voyeurism. I don't need a curtain to specify my need for privacy. Being in a private area itself gives me expectation of privacy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:21 am 
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madelica wrote:
PotatoEYE wrote:
Based on what? What criminal activity has he done?


Are you being this obtuse on purpose? It's creepy, it's voyeurism. I don't need a curtain to specify my need for privacy. Being in a private area itself gives me expectation of privacy.


No, I am trying to find out what legal complications this involves if he isn't doing anything criminal. Is it a fine or what?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 am 
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It's only creepy for you because you don't know the intentions of the person photographing. 'Safe' doesn't make an interesting image or project these days, does it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:28 am 
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Well it's definitely creepy, I think we all can agree on that.

As for criminal behaviour, I don't think he's violated any laws. Althought I am not going to pretend to know US or NYC laws. But photographing into a private space from a public area (or in this case your own private area) is not treaspassing, nor as far as I know illegal. Also in regards to say a civil claim, remember there is that expectation of privacy. If you live in a condo in which you can look out and see your neighbours, then they can see you and your expectation, for privacy with the window open will be lower than if say your view was of a brick wall or the lake/ocean.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:26 pm 
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'tater, need some help? i'm with ya!

those pictures are very very good, remind me of those little "side shows" in 17th century dutch genre painting--the poses, treatment of textiles, limited, muted palettes... the perspective/viewpoint in the floor scrubber is nothing short of magic; think rembrandt's anatomy lessons or the various takes on christ's deposition (though it's probably just vermeer's milkmaid half an hour later)

the fact that you can't see the faces is but an annoying reminder of how idiotic this whole "privacy" argument has become--we will leave fewer images behind than the neanderthals

no on to shoot some kittens! and babies!!

ps. don't stop your own project. i'll arrange the bail :lol:


Last edited by Vilk on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:31 pm 
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:) I didn't find him creepy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Well then, good luck with your artistic ways which trump any individual's wish for privacy. Guess I'm done with these forums too.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:56 pm 
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PotatoEYE wrote:
:) I didn't find him creepy


Me personally I am going to split this out into two sides, the how and the what.

Do I find how he got the photos on the creepy side, yes! Have i snapped people doing their daily lives in public before, yes! do I sometimes feel a little creepy doing it, yes! but that does come down to my own comfort level.

Do I find the images intriguing and original and thought provoking, on their own merits, yes! I think these are well done images that open a window into the everyday lives of people, our neighbours, who all to often now a days we don't even know.

In addition I like the fact that he left out the faces, so we cannot Identify the people. While it does obviously help to prevent any lawsuits, but to me it also adds to the image. Makes you want to peak in further to see the face, what is going on there. It also, to me, reinforces the few that too often, especially in the big city we don't know the faces of our neighbours.

The thing is how many other people are doing this, but not for artistic merit, but for "other" reasons? With the idea of Google glasses, what this guy has done may seem tame in comparison in the not too distant future.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:09 pm 
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jordanfaust wrote:
Well it's definitely creepy, I think we all can agree on that.

I don't think we can.

jordanfaust wrote:
The thing is how many other people are doing this, but not for artistic merit, but for "other" reasons?
What "other" reasons? Slippery slope reasoning is an informal fallacy.

All the people had to do was close their curtains, that's it. Than the "other" reasons won't exist from his vantage point.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:10 pm 
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madelica wrote:
Well then, good luck with your artistic ways which trump any individual's wish for privacy. Guess I'm done with these forums too.
Standing in front of an unobstructed window which faces the public is hardly the best method to seek privacy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:11 pm 
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madelica wrote:
Being in a private area itself gives me expectation of privacy.
The law, at least in Ontario, is not on your side with this one.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Itsaphoto wrote:
I think they should sue him and hopefully they win. He didn't take the photos while he was in a public space, he took them from his private space ... so is argument of "it's like birding" is an irrelevant comparison.

Photograph me in my oem from the street is fine, but photograph me from your home (even if I'm on the street) and I'll relentlessly push till you are charged.


In Canada he could, and would be charged.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:18 pm 
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charged with what exactly?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 am 
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PotatoEYE wrote:
charged with what exactly?

No clue.

"Reasonable Expectation of Privacy"
According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, every Canadian is guaranteed a reasonable expectation of privacy. Unfortunately, this charter, according to section 32.1, only applies between the government and a private citizen, not between two private citizens.

This unfortunately is the most abused explination of privacy law in Canada.

Common Law
Canadian common law is case law... it's very difficult to draw up a list of things that are against the law, it's more just knowing about cases... if sometime in the past, a parent sued a photographer for taking a photo of their kid without consent, and the guy was found guilty, no law is actually created, but if the same thing happens again, the judge will look back to that case and rule the same for consistancy.

As long as there is damage done that you want recovered, you can sue for it. What that damage is, I don't know... taking your soul, public humilliation, loss of privacy, etc, but when it's you behind the camera, you can bet that your subject will figure it out.

Quebec is the only province or territory which has slightly different laws in this regard.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 am 
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I assumed people saying "he'll definitely get charged" could point out a fact and the source to confirm


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:11 pm 
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I'm totally on PotatoEYE's side on this one. I think these photos are really artistic and I love ambiguity of the figures behind the glass.

As for the law, "REASONABLE expectation of privacy" is exactly that, reasonable and interpretable by a judge as he sees fit. People behind an uncovered window facing a public place will never be able to claim a reasonable expectation of privacy. If that were the case, taking photos or video ANYWHERE in public could be deemed breaking the law as long as there is an uncovered window in the frame.

A great example of this scenario in Canada is the Rogers Centre. It's not a public place, and even there any guest staying at the hotel cannot assume a reasonable expectation of privacy when they're in their rooms with the blinds open. I remember a shot of a couple having sex up against the glass making the front page of the Sun in the early nineties.

e.g. http://deadspin.com/5025371/behold-the- ... -decadence

Is it creepy? It depends on how you look at it. That's what makes art so wonderful, people see and feel every image differently. I'm sure a person who's experienced a serious invasion of privacy in their lifetimes will look at these images differently than someone who has not. I think these images are great.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:20 am 
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I'm hoping a friend who's an officer can shed some light on the referenced law. The issue is not public to private, but private to public and private to private. To me, if a private space can be seen from a public space then that's fine. Me taking a photo of someone in their backyard from the street should be legal. But me taking a picture of someone in their backyard from backyard, or my bedroom window facing their backyard ... this is the clarification I'm looking for.


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