Toronto Photography Meetup Group

I have a print card from Black's and intend to make some prints and was looking for advice on how to go about it. I went by a Black's store this morning and they said they do not disclose their printer type, therefore I cannot use an output profile. She did say they use 'RGB' to print.

I have raw images that were processed in LR and a couple from PS. I typically output JPEG's from LR with standard sharpening set to either matte or glossy paper depending which one I intend to use.

They mentioned I could request that no adjustments be applied to the images prior to printing. They did divulge that they use 'wet printing' - I am not sure if all stores are on the same system.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

just use the standard sRGB to save?

I always hand it to the person in the back with the computer because if you use the front kiosks, they have automatic adjustments on them that screw up your photos. Straight to the print person in the back i give my usb key.

If you really want to confirm your print settings in order to get exactly the colour output you want, then I just would recommend to just not use Blacks or any of the 'bulk' providers as there are many other factors in their big equipment that will mess up your colours including operator error, equipment not properly calibrated, old or sub-standard chemicals/inks/papers etc...
Instead go to a specialty print shop that deals specifically with photographers and has no problem if you bring your pantone reference chips in to confirm color accuracy. Lots of these guys listed elsewhere in the site, but Picto comes top of mind.

p.

Thanks!

I have done that before too but I didn't know about the additional tweaks they apply until recently. I knew they took a look and often applied a jusgement call on the output.

So in LR, you would use 'sRGB' rather than Abobe RGB (1998) or ProPhoto as the output mechanism?

Thanks Paul,

I know there are a ton of labs in the city who don't have their eyes roll in the back of their head when you ask about a printer profile and perhaps I will look into them when I exhaust the 700-800 (4x6) prints I have on the Black's card I have.

sRGB is your safest choice if they can't confirm the profile. I always convert mine before i send out to someone who i can't be sure of how they are seeing it. Try opening an image under the wrong profile and you sill see how screwed up the colors can really get. Yikes.

with 800 left on your card, the solution is easy: print a few covering a range of tonalities, saturation levels, colour palettes, then make a profile yourself. three minutes of pleasant work will get you in the ballpark

(yes, as you know now: don't use the online uploaders; go to the store and tell them to "turn off automatic correction" for your order; their printer runs a kind of of auto-tone + noise removal tool that wreaks havoc on film scans or heavily biased histograms)

Thanks Vilk. What do you mean by create a profile myself?

I know the print module of LR has a color management section that by default is set to "managed by printer". From there you can add others.

http://www.color.org/profilingtools.xalter

you could probably start with "poor man's profiling" to see if it's something you want to get into in the first place. when you get your prints back, load them in photoshop then adjust your monitor colour/gamma/bp/wp sliders to match the prints in your hand. any decent video card driver will have these controls, too

ps. not sure where you are with ICC profiles in general, so here's a very very tight nutshell: a profile is a simple I/O mapping; you store it in an .icc file, drop the file in a speciifc location determined by your graphic application's manufacturer, and select it from the list of profiles to choose from

If you want very high quality prints I suggest TIW or 44Wide.

Black's is great for the occasional sale on USBs and SD cards and prints if you are not expecting very high quality.

I am not a fan of blacks for printing either.

I hear you but I already have a print card so I am trying to get the best prints possible out of what I have.

The maximum file size for blacks is around 8Megs. So if you use Lightroom print-to-file for output, it could produce a file size that Blacks can't upload. Use the Export feature in Lightroom to keep the file size under 8 Megs.

I decided to try out Blacks because of convenience. I drive by one of their stores twice a day.

Their web-upload feature on a Mac is flaky at best. After a few weeks of hit or miss uploading, I ended up delivering all my files in person.

I use the same store, and since I get there about the same time every time, I hand my files over to the same person printing the photos every time.

Even after stressing repeatedly "no adjustments", I still get variations in my photos. The same file printed on 3 separate days resulted in 3 different color rendition. Printer has no idea why.

I only used them for my snapshots now.

Well then you should try Costco. I do all my printing there. Web upload works well - with no adjustment button just a click away. Costs a lot less then blacks. Also, people tell me that blacks has a fine print that says they have rights to the images that you upload. Haven't bothered confirming that myself.

By the way - you can download the Costco printer profile from the internet. But having a printer profile does not help you much if you have not color corrected your monitor also. You'll need to purchase a device such as Spyder for this.

With regard to the discussion about Black's claim on rights to use your image, their Terms of Use policy states:



The phrase "you grant to Black's a non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use, copy, distribute and display those photos" is somewhat ominous; I would avoid their service because of this clause.

Which Black's Store didn't want to reveal what printer? Weird.

Most stores have converted to the Noritsu Dry Lab Printers, they're eleventy billions times better. My store has the Noritsu Dry lab D 1005 and most stores use the smaller D701 which is same quality, but not as easy to clean and slower printing speed.

The Noritsu dry lab printers use pigment inks, Epson something something technology.

Results over web lab printing, prints are sharper and more vivid. The new glossy paper is fingerprint resistant. The matte is a semi-gloss paper and some people find it too shiny but some find it just right.

Printing speed is fast, first print out in 40 seconds roughly, and the D1005 could do duplex printing which Black's is looking into rolling out soon for in-store photobooks etc.

Wet Lab stores use the Fuji Frontier 350. It was fast at top speed, but not that fun to maintain and using chemicals can be messy. Consistency solely depends how diligent the lab tech person is making sure the printer is calibrated several times a day, which was annoying and very time consuming. The printer tended to jam alot too....



In terms of auto-correct for both types of printers, if you request it they can turn it off. DSLRs and wet lab auto-correct don't play well and highlights will blow.

Dry lab printer plays nicer with DSLRs though.

The only drawback with the dry lab prints is once they come out fresh from the printer, it stanks like vinegaryness.

Costco has been using Noritsu printers for sometime. I've been trying to find some information on them. I can't find where Noritsu states that they use pigment ink instead of just archival ink. As I understand it, pigment ink still outlasts any other type of ink, no matter how advance they are.

Costco and Shopper's still use old wet lab printers. As far as I know, Black's is the only retail chain with dry lab.

Costco has been on Noritsu for years. You can download their printer profiles from this website:

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/Profil ... les.htm#CA

Every Costco store has their own printer profiles.

james,

fwiw, i have recently ordered some prints from black's. i asked for no correction, printing as is. they printed dark as hell, garbage bin direct. i submitted the same files again, printed sickly green, garbage bin direct. i made sure they did not know those were reprints--from their end it was a new order, with "no auto correction" clearly written on top

i must conclude lady luck plays a much bigger role at black's than printer profiles

so, there goes my earlier advice

Thanks for all the comments and insight on this topic!

Like most things, it appears that the operator can impact the outcome of the service. It has been mentioned here about the importance of calibration of the printer and that is directly related to the operators judgment as to when it would require it.

The prints I have had made recently, although only a handful, were fine for my purposes. I only have three night shots, one was in B+W, and I didn't really notice a colour shift but I am by no means an expert.

From what I can tell you working at costco photo lab for 2 months. They still do use wet lab techniques, which uses light sensitive emulsion paper and silver halide. The wet lab paper, compared to dry ink paper at Blacks lasts much longer. We technicians usually calibrates colour every morning, and calibrate paper type every week. I mean after learning the inside out of costco photo center I would totally do my printings there. But when you are using costco, make sure to always turn your auto correct off (you need to request this when youre uploading the photos onto the kiosk) or else if you already contrasted your image, the auto correct will contrast it even more. Oh and not to go over 12x18 print, anything bigger than that they print it with Epson ink jet printer. The quality of light sensitive paper never the same with ink jet. Light sensitive silver halide prints always appear more pleasant and smooth as appose to ink jet dots.

Has anyone printed any of the quick books that they do in an hour?

Just did a couple of quickbooks. Quality not bad..... Colour was fairly close. Although if I really care, next time I should convert all of my images to sRGB.