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Leo Reinhard
 Post subject: B&H vs Toronto Prices
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:03 pm 
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I was checking prices today for Olympus 4/3 equipment and am amazed at the higher prices here.
Comparing Vistek with B&H ( I assume Henry's and and others here would be similar )
Depending on the Olympus equipment, I would pay 30-45% more here. Even after allowing for exchange on the Canadian dollar and shipping the savings would still be considerable.

However when I compared Nikon equipment the savings were somewhat less ranging from 7-8%, making it much less viable considering exchange rate and shipping.

Does anyone know why Olympus equipment is so much more here but not so with Nikon equipment.
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Mr.Walczak
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supply and demand?
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Rob MacLennan
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It's an odd situation. When the dollar is near par and there's a new camera release, I find that the price of Oly gear at B&H and Henry's is within $10-$20. That was the case recently with the E-P2, which is why I ultimately bought locally. Now the price difference is more like $150, a couple of months after the release.

In short I don't think that the Canadian market drops the prices, whereas the American resellers do.
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Leo Reinhard
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Mr.Walczak wrote:
supply and demand?


Mmmm. Are you suggesting that the demand for Nikon equipment in the U.S is higher than Olympus and thus higher prices and the demand for Olympus equipment is higher here than in the U.S and thus higher prices than in the U.S.?

I thought perhaps that Olympus Canada ( if they exist) are more controlling of prices. I am not saying I am just thinking>
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philmar
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My general observation is that for camera bodies or kits the Henry's price is generally close to B&H/Adorama. The price differential is in favor of the US stores when you buy individual lenses or camera accessories.
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PotatoEYE
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They might count in the import taxes and a little buck for themselves on top
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Rob MacLennan
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Leo Reinhard wrote:
Mmmm. Are you suggesting that the demand for Nikon equipment in the U.S is higher than Olympus and thus higher prices and the demand for Olympus equipment is higher here than in the U.S and thus higher prices than in the U.S.?

I thought perhaps that Olympus Canada ( if they exist) are more controlling of prices. I am not saying I am just thinking>


Both control of pricing and supply chain would appear to be the reason why The Camera Store in Calgary got out of Olympus, selling off their stock at fire-sale rates.
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bigdaddyhame
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I would bet that supply and demand plays a big part of it but also just sheer volume. B&H is a very large store and they do a metric f-tonne of business online. So sure they can afford to go low or take a loss on some items.

Additionally, the cost structure behind sales of and servicing warranties of cameras and equipment in Canada is different than in the U.S. due to volume as well. Nikon Canada has to cover its own balance sheet as would any division, and their cost structure likely reflects, in part, the fact that Canada simply isn't as big a customer.
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Mr.Walczak
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Well nikon is more popular thus the large amounts of Americans buying them makes it cheeper for bh to buy them from nikon where as I assume since orders to oly are in much smaller capacities ecspecially in Canada they cannot afford to sell there products yo stores as cheaply as nikon can?I dnt know just a thought? Not sure
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Leo Reinhard
 Post subject: My final thought on this
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:26 am 
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:idea:
While standing in line at McDonald's yesterday I noticed that the place was mobbed with hardly any tables available. Usually there is only 1/3 of the tables occupied at that time of the morning. They are offering free coffee for the next 2 weeks without having to buy anything else but the people at the tables were also eating . It looked like the free coffee promo was bringing in more than enough extra business to more than offset the cost of the coffee.

So I thought :idea: if B&H sell a few Olympus cameras and lenses at a smaller markup to get more new customers who eventually will buy other makes with a higher markup it might be a good market ploy since the amount of Olympus cameras sold by them would be relatively small compared to the amount of Canon and Nikon equipment sold at higher markups. So maybe the consider the Olympus items as loss leaders.

The End
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vkhamphi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:49 am 
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Leo Reinhard wrote:
:idea:
While standing in line at McDonald's yesterday I noticed that the place was mobbed with hardly any tables available. Usually there is only 1/3 of the tables occupied at that time of the morning. They are offering free coffee for the next 2 weeks without having to buy anything else but the people at the tables were also eating . It looked like the free coffee promo was bringing in more than enough extra business to more than offset the cost of the coffee.

So I thought :idea: if B&H sell a few Olympus cameras and lenses at a smaller markup to get more new customers who eventually will buy other makes with a higher markup it might be a good market ploy since the amount of Olympus cameras sold by them would be relatively small compared to the amount of Canon and Nikon equipment sold at higher markups. So maybe the consider the Olympus items as loss leaders.

The End


I was in B&H 6 weeks ago and it was busier than any McDonalds I've ever seen. They probably do more business than all the camera stores in Canada combined so their volume discount is much greater than what Vistek and Henrys can get.
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13inches
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vkhamphi wrote:
Leo Reinhard wrote:
:idea:
While standing in line at McDonald's yesterday I noticed that the place was mobbed with hardly any tables available. Usually there is only 1/3 of the tables occupied at that time of the morning. They are offering free coffee for the next 2 weeks without having to buy anything else but the people at the tables were also eating . It looked like the free coffee promo was bringing in more than enough extra business to more than offset the cost of the coffee.

So I thought :idea: if B&H sell a few Olympus cameras and lenses at a smaller markup to get more new customers who eventually will buy other makes with a higher markup it might be a good market ploy since the amount of Olympus cameras sold by them would be relatively small compared to the amount of Canon and Nikon equipment sold at higher markups. So maybe the consider the Olympus items as loss leaders.

The End


I was in B&H 6 weeks ago and it was busier than any McDonalds I've ever seen. They probably do more business than all the camera stores in Canada combined so their volume discount is much greater than what Vistek and Henrys can get.
I'm not sure if that explains how a relatively smaller outfit like Adorama can match B&H's prices cent for cent on most items.
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vkhamphi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:58 am 
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13inches wrote:
vkhamphi wrote:
Leo Reinhard wrote:
:idea:
While standing in line at McDonald's yesterday I noticed that the place was mobbed with hardly any tables available. Usually there is only 1/3 of the tables occupied at that time of the morning. They are offering free coffee for the next 2 weeks without having to buy anything else but the people at the tables were also eating . It looked like the free coffee promo was bringing in more than enough extra business to more than offset the cost of the coffee.

So I thought :idea: if B&H sell a few Olympus cameras and lenses at a smaller markup to get more new customers who eventually will buy other makes with a higher markup it might be a good market ploy since the amount of Olympus cameras sold by them would be relatively small compared to the amount of Canon and Nikon equipment sold at higher markups. So maybe the consider the Olympus items as loss leaders.

The End


I was in B&H 6 weeks ago and it was busier than any McDonalds I've ever seen. They probably do more business than all the camera stores in Canada combined so their volume discount is much greater than what Vistek and Henrys can get.
I'm not sure if that explains how a relatively smaller outfit like Adorama can match B&H's prices cent for cent on most items.


Adorama has an alliance with Amazon.com do you still consider them small?
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dcsang
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:07 pm 
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13inches wrote:
I'm not sure if that explains how a relatively smaller outfit like Adorama can match B&H's prices cent for cent on most items.


Adorama's storefront space (the last time I was there back in '04), in general, is a lot smaller than B&H's therefore there's less cost to Adorama than there would be to B&H. There are also a lot less employees as a result.

There's also no "production line" to get out of the store if you're buying an item. That is, no lineup to pay, then lineup to receive your items.

Adorama can still, at times, feel like a "Henry's" or more akin to a "Merkle" or "Downtown Camera" rather than a "B&H".

This may account for their lower overhead costs which could be passed along in order to price match B&H.

Cheers,
Dave
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13inches
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:13 pm 
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vkhamphi wrote:
13inches wrote:
vkhamphi wrote:
Leo Reinhard wrote:
:idea:
While standing in line at McDonald's yesterday I noticed that the place was mobbed with hardly any tables available. Usually there is only 1/3 of the tables occupied at that time of the morning. They are offering free coffee for the next 2 weeks without having to buy anything else but the people at the tables were also eating . It looked like the free coffee promo was bringing in more than enough extra business to more than offset the cost of the coffee.

So I thought :idea: if B&H sell a few Olympus cameras and lenses at a smaller markup to get more new customers who eventually will buy other makes with a higher markup it might be a good market ploy since the amount of Olympus cameras sold by them would be relatively small compared to the amount of Canon and Nikon equipment sold at higher markups. So maybe the consider the Olympus items as loss leaders.

The End


I was in B&H 6 weeks ago and it was busier than any McDonalds I've ever seen. They probably do more business than all the camera stores in Canada combined so their volume discount is much greater than what Vistek and Henrys can get.
I'm not sure if that explains how a relatively smaller outfit like Adorama can match B&H's prices cent for cent on most items.


Adorama has an alliance with Amazon.com do you still consider them small?


I've been to both storefonts (on the same day, it wasn't that far of a walk) so I understand the relative scale. One also needs to consider that B&H has multiple retail outlets and quite possibly an online presence that is just as large if not larger than Adorama's.

The affiliation Amazon has with Adorama will help, but I still don't believe having seen both operations that Adorama can still match the volume of sales that B&H does.

So your theory still doesn't fly well for me.
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vkhamphi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:16 pm 
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13inches wrote:
I've been to both storefonts (on the same day, it wasn't that far of a walk) so I understand the relative scale. One also needs to consider that B&H has multiple retail outlets and quite possibly an online presence that is just as large if not larger than Adorama's.

The affiliation Amazon has with Adorama will help, but I still don't believe having seen both operations that Adorama can still match the volume of sales that B&H does.

So your theory still doesn't fly well for me.


Well without looking at the books of both companies you can't really say that Adorama is a smaller retailer can you? Lots of online sales these days that go beyond international borders. Besides, if Adorama is priced higher than B&H and being located not too far away they probably wouldn't be around today.
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shaky_JT
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For what it's worth, I just had a really positive experience with Adorama and found their prices to be comparable with B&H. Here's some examples for items I bought:

Nikon AS-19 Speedlight Stand
B&H $9.50
Adorama $8.95
Henry's $14.99
Vistek $18.99

Westcott 43" Collapsible Umbrella with removable cover
B&H $24.95
Adorama $24.95
Henry's $49.99 (not sure if this is the same one)
Vistek $56.95

As you can see, depending on what you're looking for, I think B&H and Adorama price check each other and have comparable pricing. As for the Canadian retailers, I'm sure any number of theories could be used to explain the higher pricing.
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13inches
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vkhamphi wrote:
13inches wrote:
I've been to both storefonts (on the same day, it wasn't that far of a walk) so I understand the relative scale. One also needs to consider that B&H has multiple retail outlets and quite possibly an online presence that is just as large if not larger than Adorama's.

The affiliation Amazon has with Adorama will help, but I still don't believe having seen both operations that Adorama can still match the volume of sales that B&H does.

So your theory still doesn't fly well for me.


Well without looking at the books of both companies you can't really say that Adorama is a smaller retailer can you? Lots of online sales these days that go beyond international borders. Besides, if Adorama is priced higher than B&H and being located not too far away they probably wouldn't be around today.
Let's not micro-manage this discussion since you too have made claims based soley on theory and not hard data.

I agree with you that volume plays a significant role along with the obvious economies of scale. In the end I'm sure the base price levels set by the corporate units of Canon, Nikon, Olympus etc on both sides of the border still have the greatest impact on pricing differences though.
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dant
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I am pretty sure that Canon Canada buys from Canon US at the same cost as the larger US retailers. So there is an extra level of markup.

Studio equipment is ridiculous here in Canada and even the cheapest OPUS equipment cannot compare to name brand stuff in the US.

I have the adorama flashpoint strobes. I think they rock. For the cost Canadian retailers refuse to even come close.

What would it take for Henrys to import the same or similar strobes from China and not gouge us? Instead they ask 499 for these:

http://www.henrys.ca/12762-AURORA-CAMRA ... ECTOR.aspx

This is the most inexpensive 300ws strobe. Maybe there is not enough of a market here but other than to shop stateside how can I as an advanced amateur who is not making money on this afford to do it? :cry: I'd rather shop Canadian.

Compare it to the Adorama AC/DC 300ws strobe for 199 (battery optional).
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Itsaphoto
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dant wrote:
I am pretty sure that Canon Canada buys from Canon US at the same cost as the larger US retailers. So there is an extra level of markup.


Bingo :wink: That's part of it, the other is the fact that it just costs more to house it here at the unit level. As I've noted before on this site, volume is a key component to pricing all the way through. From shipping to housing to retail. The US market is just huge, extremely huge ... I don't think you realize just how huge it is. With inventory moving fast, both from manufacturer and the retailers' inventory, that is cash that is not tied up like here in Canada. Here, we tend to have inventory stick around more, or the overall inventory purchased is less and frequently costing more in logistics.

But again the US market is huge, even in a recession ... it still squashes Canada's best year in a boom! Profit per unit is lower there, but overall sales dollars are higher, much higher due to volume :wink:
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lxdesign
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the basic fact is that we pay more for photography gear than they do in the USA. Its a fact.
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trev.nikon
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lxdesign wrote:
the basic fact is that we pay more for photography gear than they do in the USA. Its a fact.


You should see what they charge in Europe.

I'll be headed to the Apple shortly to buy a shedload of Nikon kit. Are the website prices the same as the instore prices? I ask because I don't want to be driving between stores to price compare.
Cheers.
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wendyshakeyhands
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trev.nikon wrote:
lxdesign wrote:
the basic fact is that we pay more for photography gear than they do in the USA. Its a fact.


You should see what they charge in Europe.

I'll be headed to the Apple shortly to buy a shedload of Nikon kit. Are the website prices the same as the instore prices? I ask because I don't want to be driving between stores to price compare.
Cheers.


If you're not a CDN citizen, when you come back from the States, do you need to pay taxes on stuff that you bought?
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philmar
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Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Rent him a flatbed truck and give him a huge shopping list. Just need to factor in the cost of parking in Manhattan and we might, just might, come out ahead. :lol:

Note to pedants: YES, I realise this is not a feasible option..
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radup70
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wendyshakeyhands wrote:
If you're not a CDN citizen, when you come back from the States, do you need to pay taxes on stuff that you bought?


to get tax exemption you need to convince somehow the customs officer the goods you bring with you will be eventually exported.
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trev.nikon
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wendyshakeyhands wrote:
trev.nikon wrote:
lxdesign wrote:
the basic fact is that we pay more for photography gear than they do in the USA. Its a fact.


You should see what they charge in Europe.

I'll be headed to the Apple shortly to buy a shedload of Nikon kit. Are the website prices the same as the instore prices? I ask because I don't want to be driving between stores to price compare.
Cheers.


If you're not a CDN citizen, when you come back from the States, do you need to pay taxes on stuff that you bought?


I bloody well hope not. I'll be using it while I'm in Manhattan as well as Finger Lakes/Letchworth State Parks area so it won't be in mint condition or still in the packaging whn I return to canada. Hope I remember to buy the correct warranty. IThat should prove I am not reselling it.
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dgibson
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I think it critical that you check the comparison before assuming it is cheaper in the US or at B&H. Example:

AF Nikkor 16mm f/2.8D is $929.95 at B&H (US version - gray is $889.95). That's US dollars. Aden is $799.99.

I found a similar situation with an item at The Camera Store vs. B&H, and so I bought from TCS. Go Canada Go.

By the way, won't that shedload of Nikon gear be without warranty in Canada?

Caveat emptor

DG
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taob
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wendyshakeyhands wrote:
If you're not a CDN citizen, when you come back from the States, do you need to pay taxes on stuff that you bought?

If you're not a Canadian citizen or resident? I'm not sure how that applies now. I suspect that if you are importing a product (i.e., bringing it into the country with the intention of leaving it there, whether for resale or not), you will have to pay applicable taxes and duties. If it's a personal item that won't be left behind, then you don't have to pay.

Of course, in reality this all depends on what and how you declare your possessions, and the whim of the CBSA officer on duty...
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