Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Dude, take off those sunglasses because you really can't see

It may be a choice for some, but many don't have the capability (due to mental disabilities, sicknesses, depressions and so on) to make any better choice.

Oh Sure! Next thing you'll be telling us that paraplegics aren't just lazy and Queen and Bathurst does not accurately represent Canada's homeless problem!

I think this thread has gone off line. PotatoEYE, homelessness in not a choice for most on the street. Go to Vancouver, Winnipeg or Brampton. You will find many who have run out of options. Broad comments like yours will open you to many responses. Places like Covenant House, CAMH, Scot Mission and Anishnawbe Health exist because people need them. Tell them homelessness is a choice.

ROFLMAO!
The only thing missing from that image is Hotwire holding a sign that says Need Money for Full Frame and 70-200 2.8

I saw who are homeless in Vancouver, my friend. Drugs ARE a choice of people themselves, not a disease like many like to see it

I personally don't take photos of homeless people, but I do find it intriguing how popular the photography of homeless or simply disheveled people is to the public in general.

What is it that draws people's curiosity to it? Because it is outside a person's comfort zone? Is it another form of high-brow art? Is it an easy way for the casual observer to feel good about themselves and say they are experiencing the life vicariously through the photograph?

There seems to even be 'preferred' homeless people to photograph. A gray and wrinkled old man is apparently more 'photogenic' than, say, a 40 year old, comparitively well kept, but nonetheless homeless guy. Varying degrees of decrepitness in between of course. What is the fascination there? Does the old guy really have more 'character' than the other guy?

I wouldn't say that this type of photography is shock, but it is definitely provocative, and I'd say that's one of the goals of such a subject.

Not every homeless person is taking drugs, and drugs are addictions and a disease no different than alcoholism, yes you can make a choice and grab a bull by horns and deal with it, but it's not like a choice between latte and mocca, and not as easy as you make it sound. Conviniently you also choose to ignore the fact that there are many other underlaying issues and problems (pointed out to your already).


Your generalizations based on your observation in Vancouver indicate that you should educate yourself a bit on a subject if you choose to have interest in the subject and continue discussion

Somehow I've got it in my head that taking a photo of a homeless man on the street is like kicking someone when they're down. I'm not sure why, but I know if I were homeless and dirty and on the streets... I wouldn't want people staring and gawking and taking photos of me.

The generalization that "homelessness is a choice" shows the lack of education on the matter. While yes, there are those that chose the lifestyle as a way to live, in most cases, this is not the point and shame on your for generalizing in this way.

With regards to what are the boundaries in photographing homeless people, there is nothing stopping the photographer from exchanging the ability to take a photo with providing a meal for the person - the least someone can do when exploiting someone's image for your own creative gain. The suggestion that a portion of the sale of the photo go to a worthy charity that can help the homeless out is also a great option.

While in University, one of the assignments in Social Science was to take a homeless person for a meal. This was a standout moment in my life where I was able to gain an inkling of an understanding on what put that person in the position where they would not have a home to call there own. It was an eye opening experience as well as one that came with a great story. For someone as closed minded about the subject as "Potato Eye" I would suggest that you do the same and gain some education before you continue to make an ass of yourself on the subject.

Martin

I know this is a photo forum, and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I wanted to post some interesting facts / sites regarding homelessness in Canada: (in the hopes that we can eradicate the thinking that homelessness is about choice, or about being opportunistic (aka shaky lady et al) There are some serious numbers that represent serious problems. As for the photographer that photographed the homeless "subjects" - I am grateful that I live in a country where she (we) has (have) the freedom to do so, however, I personally would not support her by purchasing a print...

200,000 to 300,000
Estimated homeless population in Canada. Only about 10 per cent live on the street or shelters; the others have no fixed address, living with friends, in rooming houses or in fleabag hotels
(that ALOT of people who CHOOSE this "lifestyle")

25 to 50
Percentage of homeless people who have a mental illness, according to a number of different estimates (so that would mean anywhere from 50,000 to 225,000)

6,000
Number of psychiatric beds in the Canadian hospital system

60,000
Number of psychiatric beds during the late 1950s

75
Percentage of homeless people with mental illness who are also substance abusers

6,000
Number of psychiatric beds in the Canadian hospital system

60,000
Number of psychiatric beds during the late 1950s


Series about Mental Health - homelessness was featured one week in the 8 week series - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special- ... g-through/

Candaina Mental Health Commission website - attempting to "open minds" and create a stigma free Canada -http://www.mentalhealthcommission.ca/English/Pages/default.aspx

If you're going to photograph those without homes, have the balls to do it without a long lens.

At the very, very least, talk to them, they're not just objects to post on flickr.

I don't know that taking photos of homeless people is, on its face, wrong/cheap- but it matters, to me, why you are doing it and how you go about it.

I agree with labgrunt- have the decency to have a conversation with and ask their permission to take the photograph if they are the subject of the photo , just as you would with any other human being where the person is the subject - especially with homeless people as they are so often ignored (perhaps a bit different if you are shooting a street scene/building and they happen to be walking by and they aren't the subject).

This is art. and I agree that there should be a caption. Too bad Hotwire didn't have an empty open camera backpack and a sign asking for more gear.

Scratch that, I should go out and beg for more gear. I'll let people take my photo all they want and put it in galleries as long as they donate to my cause. Lol. I'll have a list ready for anyone willing to donate.

Often when people refer to photographing the homeless, they mean photographing panhandlers. Then they give them money to assauge their guilt. Homelessness is a problem, the fact that it is a choice for some not withstanding. Panhandling and donating to panhandlers is not a solution to homelessness.

I used to give money to panhandlers downtown, but all too often I would see them buying fries or in the liquor store afterwards. So I started bringing food for them, along with my own lunch. But it always seemed they preferred money so they could buy booze or drugs. I have also seen them in the Path, plotting to distract the guard so they could sneak in places and hide.

In parts of Toronto you can watch the panhandlers signal the drug dealers when the cops come around. The dealers pay them for this service. When they get enough money they buy a hit, disappear in the lane, return later and sit on the sidewalk visibly stoned. In those neighbourhoods, donating to panhandlers supports drug dealing in a noticeably direct way. Drug dealing leads to addiction. Addicts commit a lot of crime like theft from auto and petty break and enter. Next time your or a friend's car gets broken into in Chinatown for a few coins left on the dash think that it was likely done by an addict. Addiction also leads to prostitution, because they turn tricks to fund their addiction. Crack is many hookers' pimp.

People that photograph homeless or panhandlers then sell the images should donate to organisations that help the homeless. People that do it as a hobby should also seriously consider such a donation, or contribute to helping in other ways like community service. Sure the charities, shelters and missions are not 100% efficient or effective, but it is a better solution than donating to a panhandler that might spend it on drugs or booze. This may not be the case in all areas, but in much of downtown Toronto it is, and a careful eye can watch it happen.

I hope this does not seem too off topic, but this thread has been irking me for a while and in my experience giving to panhandlers is not a solution to homelessness.

In defence of PotatoEYE:

I think PotatoEYE is comparing our affluent society to Eastern European and south Asian societies where there is little social safety net like welfare. With welfare system and family/friends in a rich country there really shouldn

We also have to be careful when talking about choice itself. The factors that lead to homelessness are also often the factors (that have already been listed) that make it difficult or impossible for many homeless to make the right choice/decision. It's hardly a choice if you don't have the mental capacity to see healthier alternatives.

[quote="philmar"]In defence of PotatoEYE:

I think PotatoEYE is comparing our affluent society to Eastern European and south Asian societies where there is little social safety net like welfare. With welfare system and family/friends in a rich country there really shouldn

Yeah .. I was reading that between the lines from PE .. but it was a stretch

99% of the time its schadenfreude and 1% serious work.

+1

Awesome point!

sorry - double post....

I like the colour red

LOL

And I was HOPING that is what potatoEYE meant. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because he DID mention the plight of the homeless in poorer countries and contrasting them with or homeless.


BTW - Nice purse, Hotwire!

Its not a purse, its a European Carry-All.