Toronto Photography Meetup Group

I think you may be a tad disingenuous Metrix. You wrote:



And you maintain you were really trying to say that:


I'd have a hard time convincing any judge or jury that.

It's the internet. Were you really offended by those comments?

Basically most of the Internet is the wild wild west without judge and jury, it's a good thing in my opinion!

Not to open up a discussion that seems to have been resolved until maybe you have reopened it. I do like a good argument My first statement was more of a sarcastic knee jerk attempt. Look back into my previous posts and the judge should see I use the in a consistent manner to indicate a sarcastic "humour".

The second statement was exactly what I felt about it all. You could waste a life time picking apart logical inconsistencies on the web.

Your are too logical as arguments start on the web because of what people perceive not what is logical. There are no debating rules on here and a very limited set of conventions. The simplest statement will often be miscommunicated or be misunderstood more so then in person because there is non verbal body language or huge repercussions. The web is also hugely multicultural lacking common cultural reference points in regard to communications.

Madelica had a valid response based on emotional not necessary logic.

There has been plenty of papers written about the subject of communications with the common conclusion that the net is too young and changing too rapidly to have a consistent set of communication clues. Even in context the meaning of the simple face is often misunderstood.

Become a lawyer!!!




If what you say is true, then in my opinion, though the judge would agree the comment was intended to be sarcastic the judge would probably not believe that it's intention was to communicate that you felt it strange that one would communicate one's disdain for resolutions on a thread about resolutions. That is a stretch. I can read and re-read the original post and can't imagine how someone could surmise from that post that you were not calling the poster strange but rather refering to the reasons for the post as strange. But perhaps you know each other and there is some other dynamic operating here.
But to avoid a useless kerfuffle I, like Philmar, will take your word for it.

Your imaginary Judge I think would take in a count of the over all context. I was the original poster of the thread and as such have a tiny vested interest in keeping the thread on topic and not letting it stray too far away from the specific topic which was a follow up of resolutions in photography that were made at the beginning of 2009.

To use your example on DIY flash modifies. If you had replied about the negative qualities of using them in a thread that was all about the making of DIY flash diffusers you could expect to get more then a few sarcastic remarks, more so if you had posted your remarks in a tone of sarcastic humour that made fun of DIY diffusers. Even more so if there was a thread next door where you could have posted about using DIY diffusers

grats on being a lawyer!

but I don't see how saying "you guys are all silly" is not rude while "you're silly" is. so me saying "asian people smell" is not rude but when I say "you smell" it is rude? I'll merely be stating my dislike and not ridiculing an individual in the former statement.

if you state that people spending time on diy stuff is silly and they're being cheap, that will be rude. if you state that when you tried diy yourself and it didn't work out, it won't be rude.

Your characterisation of the internet as the Wild West may be true, however that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some rules, if even informal ones. Even the Wild West had rules, they just weren't imposed due to the lack of order.
Madelica's response was emotional, you are right. I don't think responses are valid simply because their genus is from emotion. Undeniably, we are emotional creatures but it doesn't follow that all actions borne of emotion are therefore appropriate.
People shouldn't get offended by someone criticizing resolutions. Do you think people should be offended because I stated limitations of a DIY flash diffuser? I think not. Would anger at my criticism of such DIY setups be a 'valid' response in your opinion?

The wild wild west in the beginning had no rules except on a very local level and very little moral or social contract, it had cause and effect, survival was of primary importance. Here at TPMG we have rules. In Madelica's put forward an honest opinion therefor it's at least as valid as your argument based on a specific type of logic. An emotional response is not invalidated by logic it's just an emotion response to a statement.

About the DIY thing I think we are out of sync see my comment above. Most flame wars appear to be far more angry then they actually are.

Talking about off topic maybe we should continue this if you wish under another section of the forum (see TPMG rules )

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0Bmhjf0rKe8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0Bmhjf0rKe8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Pam what's with all these darn kittens all over the place always forcing their way in to break up a good argument

Holy tangential trainwreck. We go from resolutions to judges ruling on sarcastic smileys!? Yikes!

I think you all should go out and shoot more

AGREED. +5 for Qualdoth

haha. that's so cuuuute. awww.

Alan,

what kind of 'food book' project? I am interested!

Sorry gang, I am new to the board. At the risk of not pursuing my desire to know what significance the kitty cat has in this discussion, this is the last you

fionah we all have free will and can vote for one politician over another, but when the elections is over it's over so now can we please get back on topic (we almost made it before these last 2 posts)?

BTW staying on topic is one of the few sometimes written laws of most Internet forums. Kitties and other babies are used to cool things down and try to get back on topic. After all how can people fight when there is a cute kitten around.

It was too cold for that!! I had just returned from Cuba and Costa Rica so I have tons of RAW files to process, we had a lively verbal joust in between processing my RAWs. Nothing malicious. I considered the matter closed long ago.
In fact I met Metrix last night at the City awards ceremony, introduced myself and there are no ill feelings....(unless he noticed me drooling on his nice camera Sorry that was me). He is an amiable decent guy and look forward to meeting him again some day....if I ever make it to a TPMG event. (Pickering?!!! )

The discussion was never really as heated as it appeared to be. There rarely is a need to post cute kitties to any of my internet flame wars. I have 3 of the cutest doggies around at home to ensure I never get too emotionally invested in such matters. How can ANYONE be angry for long in the company of THESE guys?
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/phil_mario ... 3936344786

pickering's too far for an event n/p...there's one at york cemetery for a shoot out and yonge/sheppard for dinner

For anyone unfamiliar. If arguments apparently or actually get heated, we post pictures of kittens to cool things off. It's just what we do on this board. After all who could get mad at such cuties.

As for my own resolutions, now I'm thinking I might actually set some photographic goals for this year. Didn't really have any last year except

Learn how to use camera.

This year

1. Get through processing backlog
2. Keep up with blog.

I think I'll stop there; supposedly the key to success with resolutions is not being overly ambitious.

Ya, same here. Actually no .. my resolution is not to have a resolution. Photography is fun for me and I'd hate to make it structured. I learn new stuff if it piques my interest at a given time .. hence, no deadlines, lol. I shoot odd gigs like a few weddings to pay for gear, and learn in the process about the Pro side of things, but it's always organic, not structured. Cheers.

For me the key to a good resolution is one that allows me to expand my photography experience, it's not about structure, restrictions or buying a new lens, it has no hard fail or pass marks. It just focuses my thinking on new areas of growth which usually in turn results in better photographs.

All 3 of my resolutions for 2009 expanded both my knowledge and experience of photography. For me if I am not learning and getting new ideas through my hobby it's time to move on or turn the hobby into a 9 to 5 job.

i forgot to put down my resolutions when i replied earlier. ok, so here we go:

1. continue to have fun with my flash until i know exactly what the hell i'm doing

2. focus on my macro shots and kill some more gummie bears.

3. go and learn how to properly post process my images as i don't think i'm doing it right