Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Well said, may I add take a course that specifically targets the Business of Photography, they are fantastic, and get ASMP's "professional Business Practices in Photography"

http://www.amazon.ca/Asmp-Professional-Business-Practices-Photography/dp/1581151977

Came highly recommended by a well known commercial photographer I know, and has never let me down. It is truly an eye opener. Key is you have to read it front to back.

Unfortunately, it is a steep uphill battle, and probably a losing battle at that, ultimately. For each person who takes a stand, there will be ten others who are willing to give away their photo for free or next to nothing. Many people are just thrilled to know that someone wants to publish their photos. Ad and creative agencies know this. Asking a clerk to spend an extra half hour looking through places like Flickr might save hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars on a media buy, so it doesn't hurt to try, right?

Fortunately, the market for high-quality, well-priced photography hasn't entirely disappeared. But it definitely has taken a beating, and those who depend on that to make a living need to adjust or perish. Just look at what happened to the professional stock photography world over the past five years.

My own personal take on this is "all's fair in love and war". I used to be "that guy" with the cushy IT office job, and was thrilled to get a couple hundred bucks and a free meal to take pictures at a friend's wedding. Then I realized there were people in Toronto able to collect $10K and beyond to photograph a wedding, and I said "to hell with cubicle life!!!" and never looked back.

I know a lot of wedding photographers express their disdain (I don't quite want to say the word "hate") towards the "weekend warriors" who think nothing of buying a 1Ds Mark III or D3, charging a few hundred bucks to shoot a wedding, and then simply burning all the files to a DVD and going home. It's human nature to dislike something that threatens our livelihood.

The bigger problem is the lowering of the standards of excellence. Face it, the general public tends not to know what defines good photography service. Thus, many of them focus on price instead. It's a "race to the bottom", as many have put it, as consumers increasingly (and unrealistically) expect more for less. Excellent photography should be an art form, not a commodity: quality over quantity. But things are generally headed in the opposite direction: more is better, instant gratification, "cheap enough is good enough", etc.

Basic supply and demand. There are more supply of photographers (pros & non-pros) than there are demand for them. Even if all the pros formed a solid trade organization/union and set standard prices (like the freakin oil companies), there's still likely more non-pros willing to do it for free or next to nothing. So it's probably best to really study the industry and market and look for revenue opportunities outside the usual stuff. It's survival of the fittest.

That said, this is still just a hobby to me and am still contemplating if I do want this as a second career. Hence I'm still in the "study the industry & market" phase in order for me to make a proper assessment. However I occasionally do get requests/offers for paid gigs and I at least try to find out what going rates are so as not to low-ball the pros.

I'd highly recommend that anyone who has challenges on what 'fair pricing' of photographs and photographic services is or should be, read Dan Heller's "5 Truisms of the Photography Business" http://www.danheller.com/truisms.html

He makes a very good fact supported case for the direction the industry is moving in. You may not agree with him or like what he has to say, but the case he makes and the facts he presents are difficult to argue with.

technical competence in photography is easy to achieve... but buidling a viable business takes more than technical competency... as with any profession, photography requires lots of hardwork and investment in time and energy that most of the 'weekend warriors' will fail to muster...

although the market for photography isn't infinite, it is still quite substantial and if you're committed to making it your livelihood then you'll find a way to make it work.... but the majority will fail... as with most other self-employed professions...

p.s. the schmap site is complete crap... personally, i wouldn't want to be associated with it ... surprised if it's able to grow and is still viable in a year or two...

Well I just got my first request from them.

Of course I said no way. I'm not trying to make money on my photos, but I'm not going to give my stuff away either!

The photo in question: black creek pioneer village (funny, since many other people on tpmg have had shots from there short listed too apparently).

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34353273@N00/3282834918/" title="99860002 (Large) by chris_hotwire, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3305/3282834918_c5df9ddf5c.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="99860002 (Large)"></a>

ditto, i also an amateur i don't mind doing free to get my name out... also i have paid jobs at the same time while getting my name out for doing some freebies.

Amen!
Or read What They Don't Teach You At Harvard Business School

Guess who makes more money? The owner of Smugmug, iStockphoto, etc or the photographer?

word

Photography is like any other product or service -- it depends on the way you've positioned your brand (which is you).

If you think about it, there are really only two ways any brand can truly succeed.

1) low cost provider - Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. or

2) high end/quality - Emirates, Tiffany's, etc.

Everything else sort of falls in the middle. My advice is to remove yourself from this middle section. Either offer $400 wedding photography or $8,000 ones...everything else in the middle ultimately becomes mediocre (Air Canada, Sears, etc.).

Neil