Toronto Photography Meetup Group

I am probably opening up one of those hopeless cans of worms (such as PC vs. Mac, Nikon vs. Canon, etc.) but can someone PLEASE try to demystify the real difference between these two cameras for me?
I can keep reading about it til my head explodes and I am only getting more confused. Reviews range from 'human eye can't see the difference in image quality (which btw extends to full frame vs. pre-full frame debate) to whatever.
Aside from the obvious price difference which will differentiate the buyers, what are real practical differences between the two in your opinion?

Thank you!

D3s - more money
D3s - more weight
D3s - integrated vertical grip

D3s - more fps
D3s - video
D3s - ISO 102k

you can have two d700 for the price of one d3s?

...i think i'd get to of d700 instead.

Thank you hotwire and Elisha...

Having said what you did, is all that worth the $ difference?

I know, i know...more i think about it, more I am realizing it's a boring and superficial topic. One should take the camera (whatever available to her/him), get out and shoot...all these theories about equipment are a waste of time. I just get so wrapped up into it sometimes Darn consumerism!

uggh.. pressed the wrong button. i'm so tired. (re: realizing i misspelled tWo)

The D700 is a D3 in essence -- just in a smaller package. There are a few other minor points, like only a single CF slot vs. two - but as I sad - they are minor!

If you're coming to the social next weekend, I'd be happy to show the D700 to you.

If you don't require fast AF, D700 is fine.

If you do require fast AF, D3 would be more ideal.

I don't think I've ever NOT shoot with both bodies when I cover sports, and there's a visible difference when it comes to AF performance.

And I've set both up to as close as identical as it could possibly gets in the sub-menus so transition from one to another is almost as seamless as it could get.

Because I know nothing about Nikons, is it safe to say D700=5DMk2 and D3s=1DMk3?

right.... AF may not be as quick as the D3 on the D700, but if you don't shoot fast action, its not a huge deal. That being said .. AF performance on the D700 is not bad.

Price wise, yes. But technically, not really. The technical difference between D3s and D700 is much much less than the difference between 5DMk2 and 1DMk3.

Think 1DMk3 without the vertical grip, take out 4 fps top speed (but you can option your way to be only 1fps slower), keep the same focus system but slow it down just a tad, cut the rated shutter life in half, take out the 2nd memory card slot, dial down the weather sealing a bit, move a few buttons around and lower the viewfinder coverage from 100% to 95% and add a built-in flash and retail it at 60% of the price of a 1DMk3. That's pretty much sum up the difference between D3 and D700. A D3s is a D3 with an improved sensor (better high ISO) and added video mode.

Back to OP question, it really depends on what you are shooting. Do you need that extra stop of high ISO? vertical grip? 5fps vs 9fps? Video? 2nd memory card slot?

Looking at your flickr stream unless you are going to change what you shoot or maybe move into video would you get any additional benefit out of the D3?

Thank you all! I really appreciate your comments. Yeah D3s can buffer admirably ... i would love that but i don't think it's worth the price difference at the moment.

Metrix, my Flickr doesn't really contain anything i shoot even half "seriously"...i don't even know why i have it when i think of it.

The difference between a semi pro and a full pro camera is confusing on paper. But, if you are a working pro and rely on your gear for a living it makes perfect sense.

I'm a Canon dude and years ago considered the then new 5D vs the much more expensive 1Dmk2 ($3400 vs $5500 if I remember correctly). In the end it was the little features that made a world of difference and got me shots I would have missed otherwise. You pay for more than bragging rights when you go with a premium body. You get the features that will give you a competitive advantage while under the gun.

That being said, if your a hobbyist or are considering going pro... wait to spend the big money. By the time you will get full use of the added features your camera will be outdated as technology is changing so fast.

I think the jaw-dropping 102k iso is the biggest standout that seems to get the attention.

If you like shooting in bad light or in the dark, then the D3s is the better choice i guess.

Magic, i really think you put it perfectly. I just need to be reminded of that before I jump the gun. I should actually admit to myself that realistically i can't even justify owning D700, let alone D3s.
Thank you!

To stir things up a bit more...

D700 is near the end of its product life. Rumor has it that it will be replaced within the next 6 months. Some people get really mad if whatever they bought got superseeded within months. Other people would look at the eminent product replacement as a chance to get good deals on older model.

Yc

That's the nature of the beast with technology. Folks will wait for a new replacement body, but then they complain about the high price and decide to wait for it to drop but by that time, a replacement body is going to be released so they wait because they don't want to buy old technology... then they complain that the replacement is too expensive. lol

Go buy the open box D3 for $3k from headshots now! I am surprised not sold yet....

Lara and Carlton, good points

lxdesign, thanks for your kindness. i will consider it.

Etam, when did you see it? There is nothing on the website so I am assuming that you went there recently. What are the risks of buying an open box? Is it still under Nikon'as warranty?

Thank you!
Does anybody have any comments on open box items??

I only know Headshots as a rental place. Did not know they sold new stuff as well.
Or do they just sell discontinued models that were used for rentals and replace them with the newer models?

Being an open box, it was obviously rented out or shown in the store. But for them to lower the price so much, I really wonder what's the # of actuations of these 3 D3s.
I am not sure that they sell new items at all.

In that case they should sell it as used and not misrepresent it as an open box especially if it has changed hands many times and used extensively.

I guess the only way to find out is by the shutter actuations.

They clearly called it a "demo" and said that it comes with "full" Nikon Canada warranty.

Interesting.

Yc

This is from their website:

We have a complete rental and sales department, plus a lighting demonstration room and Seminar facilities.

So, they do sell as well. Maybe somebody from TPMG has experience with the place. I am just curious how bitten up these demo units can possibly be. D3s came out in October.

Think these are D3 not D3s.

Yc

Duh! Thanks, Lara. You're totally right. Ok, i'm retiring from this topic since I can't get even the basics straight