Toronto Photography Meetup Group

I have been using a camera since long before you were born Alex. But Ive only taken a half decent image since the arrival of digital and my first digital camera in 2007. Im interested in capturing the overall. Then if I have time I will go back and get the details.

Aspire to more, not less.
If you want to learn, spend time doing.
No one taught me how to work my film cameras or my digital cameras.
I learned by ruining roll after roll of film, by over exposing negatives, underexposing negatives, using the wrong chemicals.
The length of time you spend working with a medium should be a strength not a weakness.
You should aim to see the photos you wish to capture. If you just want to document what you see, get an iPhone or a point and shoot, or google the locations. Aim higher!

Capturing the entire scope of a subject is a lot harder than you make it sound - at least by my definition - and I think you may be biting off more than you can chew and in that vein you are getting less results than you want, and thus are limiting your output and ability.

I hardly think its a matter of aiming higher or achieving lower. While some want to capture of composition of a forest, the mountains and some sky, others want to run into the forest and shot an acorn lying on the ground. It comes down to personal taste and the time you have to get the shots you want. Had I a full 8 hour day shooting Spadina House as an example, I would have concentrated on the details. But I wanted to capture the rooms and their atmosphere. Before I went the second time around I planned on getting a shot of that bust behind the piano. Well, that didnt happen. In fact, I hardly got off the first floor and didnt shoot any rooms upstairs other than the landing and hallway. The next time back there I will be taking up where I left off this last time and hopefully have enough time to get those really interesting detail shots.

Bynx - I think that is the point - you talk about wanting to capture the details but then focus on the whole. Plus you are already planning to continue with the whole the next visit. Why not do the details at your next visit and see how it goes - how you find it. Then go back another time and finish your upstairs of the whole - unless of course you fall in love with the details

Im not willing to give up the overall image for a close up of something on the wall. After Ive got what I want to shoot then those details will have more meaning because they will have the overall image to show context. Its just a matter of priorities. Mine are the overall, while you guys like the close up details.

I think you are missing the point of our feedback based on yours.

The "details" is a very broad stroke term. I simply stated that I aim to capture things that the general public doesn't.
I think you are getting lost in specifics that we aren't.

I know I am just advising that you spend time on the details to get the shot you want, meaning get your white balance right, get your exposure down. Work on your framing, your subject.
Those are huge details, especially when you say you missed a specific shot your second time around at the Spadina House.
That is a critical detail you missed.

Only you can define what you want to do with your photography. We(I) are trying to give you some help in finding your way.

I didnt know I was lost. But thanks anyway. Where I need help is finding more time. 3 hours at Spadina House a lot of which was waiting for others to get out of camera range. Sometimes that would happen and then someone else would walk in, set up their camera and get their shot(s) resulting in more time waiting. I'm not really complaining, its just that there was so much to shoot in that house that I just didnt get the time to go for the details. When I saw your shots Alex I simply commented that I liked them and wished I had had the time to shoot them as well.

Cutting your bracketing from 9-12 frames down to 3 at most should save you some time

Bart, please, just go away. You really are a dickhead. Ive only been on this forum a short time and Im tired of your stupid remarks already. I dont know how others put up with you.

Bynx - it is sounding like you may need some time management (so to speak). Several times while I was waiting for the room I wanted to photograph (or the specific thing in that room) due to someone being in the way - that is when I would look around and see what other things in the room, not obstructed, would be cool to photograph. You could have easily gotten some of the smaller details photographed while waiting for your big picture.

Hope that suggestion helps.

No, but I'm serious. I bracket shots all the time (I blend them instead of HDR), I've never seen the need to bracket more than 3. Wouldn't that save time? I'm not droning on about HDR here, to each his own.

Since I started doing photography in groups, this has become my go-to approach. Hence, one camera with a normal or wide zoom, and another with a macro lens.

However, as my repeat visits to places start to increase, my interest in establishing shots decrease. I want more of the middle ground -- something with more of a compositional challenge.

I also post no mills.

Jordan, you are absolutely right. Time management could be more efficient if I did exactly that. While waiting shoot some of those details I missed. But when in the middle of taking the shots, sometimes I cant move the camera otherwise I lose the shots Ive already taken.

In some instances I took 9 shots and could have done with a couple more, not 6 less. Each to their own how they shoot for HDR. I do it according to the needs of the lighting situation and not by a written in stone 3 shot series. Ive just posted all my HDR images on my Flickr. None of those could have been made with 3 shots.

Finally a few of my photos from Casa Loma - some were enhanced with HDR and some were not

If I wanted to spend time on something/some place in particular, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it during a group meet up, no offense to T-Muggers. I'd find out when the place is dead and hit it then.

I don't mind going out with one or two other shooters but any more and it kinda develops it's own inertia which tends to slow things down or changes the dynamics of the flow. This is usually street as I'm not a fan of interiors. To each their own though...

While you may not appreciate the tone you've read into Bart's text, I must say he makes a completely valid point.
Being at the Spadina house and seeing the lighting I find it hard to believe that any of them required 12 shots. Again this comes back to the information that your camera stores in its raw files.
For the exception of severe under/over exposures a properly metered photo on a modern DSLR shot in raw can yield several useful EV's (exposure values).
If your shot is considered neutral, try pushing it in your editor to +1, +2, +3. What results do you note? Anything more/less blown out or grainy than the original shot?
Repeat with a -1,-2,-3.
Note the results.
Taking 3 shots each which step one or two exposure values in either direction will give you 9 full exposures. And you've taken a quarter of the time (at least) to shoot the photos.

I think that you will find you may not like how people offer critique, criticism or help online, but it is just text. Text has no tone, so try not to take it personally.
This is a photography forum, and generally things here are about photography. There are people here who can/will share a lot of information and experience. Don't discount them when you haven't even met them.

Alex there is information and there is stupidity. What Ive seen coming from Bart is sarcastic stupidity. I can take criticism as well as the next guy. But if you dont have anything to say that is of a mature nature then better not to say anything. Ive stated what I think of Bart and I dont think I have to have met the guy to think otherwise. If I have absolutely no respect for someone then I just ignore them. As for the time I spent taking my pictures or the number of pictures I take is a personal preference. If you like taking 3 thats ok. If I like taking 9 thats ok too. If I only use 5 its better for me to not use 4 than for you to need 2. As I said I took 9 in each case. And in a couple of instances I wish I had taken an additional 2 underexposed shots to catch the interior lights. When I come away from a shoot I want to feel like I couldnt have done it any better and have what I need so I end up with the best shot I can possibly do. www.flickr.com/photos/paul-mitchell
Check out the flickr site and tell me what you think of the shots from Spadina.

This is a digital age 1,2,3,...9,... who cares stitched panoramic, HDR each to their own.



Your mixing up EV with dynamic range. You may choose to use EV as your scale for dynamic range but it is not really the same thing as EV used as an exposure value. Taking a RAW shot and extracting several different exposures is just reducing the dynamic range (information) for each of those shots. It's a valid process but nothing to do with HDR and is not the same as using RAW images exposed at different EVs.

A good HDR program should be able to take raw files and combine them in a smooth continuous way into a HDR file with a very large dynamic range. From there the HDR file has to be tone mapped so we can see it on our pitifully output devices. I could go on but it gets more complicated. Suffice to say that 9 shots may be overkill for many subjects but it does give the HDR program a lot to work with.

Bynx, you're definitely right. My posts are far from constructive, but the point remains the same, and it has sparked some potentially productive feed back. Iam stupid to expect you to take my criticisms seriously; but I hope you would take the advice of people like Metrix. He's one of the best if not the best photographers on this forum and his advice is often poignant, respectful and on point.

For once I agree with you Bart. Metrix comment is on point. And he is saying the same thing I did. While 9 shots may be overkill it gives me everything I want to use and the choice to not use what I dont need. Its better than taking 3 quick shots and lacking proper exposure shots for either end of the range and wishing I had taken a couple more shots. It only takes about 1 minute or less to take 9 shots as compared to a second or two to take 3 shots. Not a big time savings compared to the comfortable feeling knowing you have covered all the bases. I do know that last time I was able to cover more of the house but got pics that werent as good since I was using a point and shoot. Haste makes waste.

I am well aware.
Your sharing the information however is useful as I neglected to include it.
I left it simple because most people I encounter doing HDR are using EV bracketing, while yes the camera still captures far more range than a simple EV switch in post, the affects achieved are in most cases visually the same for these users.

I don't care how many shots any one wants to take, - as you say, to each their own - it just seems like a weak leg to stand on when you don't get the shots or the time to take them because you had to spend so much time taking so many in the same spot.

No the time spent wasnt spent clicking the shutter 9 times. It was from clicking the shutter 6 times then waiting for people to step in front, set up their cameras, take their pictures, pick their nose and finally move on so I could take my last 3 shots which in the dark lighting were quite long. Now this sounds bad, but it is nothing against those people who were there to take pics too. Im sure I was in the way of a few as well. When we first went up the stairs to the first floor everyone went to the front rooms while I went to the back and immediately started shooting the billiard room. I knew I wanted to shoot a panorama which would consist of at least 18 shots. I was able to get that out of the way first off. I was still shooting downstairs long after people had moved upstairs. Im not sure what we are talking about here. The only thing I could really complain about is the lack of time to be able to shoot all the things I wanted to shoot. It was a great day and I enjoy spending the time with the group that was there. I wanted to sit and have a chat with you Alex. But I hardly got to say hello. Just no time. Maybe next time.

blah blah blah What is this high school Less arguing more shooting!

Hey Tyler. Miss your smiling face. When are we going to be on the same outing?

What has this world come to when Tyler is the voice of reason .. lol. Good to see you popping in.

Funny, I didn't notice the face in this shot until today:

Door ironwork by ofermod, on Flickr

Although, definitely noticed the face in this shot:


Sapna by ofermod, on Flickr

Always!! Never will forget TPMG and the fire crew lol! I just don't play a part in the Daily "days of our tpmg" soap opera roles so I can't contribute to them lol Last week on the Daily Times at TPMG we had striking news of a TPMG overhaul new owners new servers new everything! But who could it be !??! find out next week on .. "days of our TPMG"..... This week on the Daily times at Tpmg we find out the scandal of site administration .. We had owner then replaced where soon there after has yet been left without direction leadership or owner, what will happen next!... Next week look forward to .. Ryan stirring the pot in LX Designs Kitchen ... Where Bartimus pushes Rhommel one button too far! and where we find out if AHosking will ever not be a tool... ... too much for me lol

Oh! and you know things are getting out of hand when me! of all people is acting as the voice of reason haha .. My dad would be so proud

You forgot the Bynx/Walczak ” I miss your smiling face" love story. In an unlikely time, at an unlikely place, love is able to grow despite its opposition and critics. Not since The Notebook have we heard such a tale of love against all odds. In the words of a prolific 21st century poet "We found love in a hopeless place, Shine a light through an open door, Love and life I will divide, Turn away cause I need you more, Feel the heartbeat in my mind."

Sorry Paul, while I agree that Bart is generally less than constructive with his criticism, I'm finding it really tiring that so many threads on TPMG devolve into grade school name-calling and petty bickering.

Maybe TPMG needs to set up a playground so people have someplace to hold their schoolyard fights.

Just my two cents...

Ian